Posted 10:19 AM by Blah blah

A Western View of Dating "Chinese" Chinese (Part 4)

Points I would make more fully if I had time. I want to balance what has been said:

1. ABC guys dating those women from Asia, or guys who prefer those types of women, are NOT all doing so because of sexism, lack of confidence, or racial prejudice. For me, I like their looks, greater femininity, and sweetness. You who know me know that I LIKE women and try to support them as much as possible. I'M usually the one encouraging them to learn more, grow more, and gain more independence. "Strong" women DON'T intimidate me. But then I don't want to date "masculine," Type A women who can only spare five minutes/week in their Day Planners for me, either!

2. The native Chinese guys are NOT all looking for the "shrinking lotus blossom." Some of my good friends were native from Taiwan and China, and they also appreciated and sought more outspoken, assertive women. Christine makes valid points here, though.

3. The "strong, independent, Westernized woman" has problems too that turn men off. Some want men to serve THEM most of the time but are unwilling to put in the effort or TIME to make it an intelligent partnership. Some are coarse, vulgar, rude, or distinctly lack femininity; some are argumentative, critical, and demanding (i.e. bitchy); some are money-hungry and superficial; some are just bitter and show contempt for men; and some are incredibly fickle and have a different man every two months. I don't mean most Westernized women are like this. I'm saying these are the characteristics that turn off men and drive them into the arms of other women.

4. I want to make it CLEAR that native women from Asia are not all weak, submissive, and helpless. In fact, the women I dated here in the Bay Area are a cool mix, because they had to be strong enough to overcome numerous obstacles to make it to America, plus they were focused and hardworking enough to survive here. We have a TON of immigrants from China who settled here in Silicon Valley starting in the mid-1990s, during the dot-com boom. I was impressed how so many of the women I met from China had studied and worked in traditionally "masculine" fields: medicine, electrical engineering, law, and management. Compared to Taiwanese women, I found MORE mainland Chinese women who were this way. Very focused and determined. Plus I've dated DIVORCED women too. They didn't pine for a man and tried to be independent.

5. Personally, I like the looks of women from Asia or Europe and find them more physically attractive. The mind of my ideal woman, though, is cosmopolitan, intellectually curious, articulate, and adventurous to exploring new things and new styles. Ideally she should appreciate not ONLY my Chinese side but my American side (of which I am also deeply proud). Some women I've dated from China have hated all things Japanese because of history, but having experienced racial prejudice myself as a kid, this is a BIG turnoff. All sorts of narrowmindedness or racial prejudice are turnoffs for me. As I wrote before, I dislike timidity. At the same time, I don't want a "heartless bitch" either.
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From my reply last year to Christine. I wrote:

I just read your posts about how ABC men get treated in Taiwan vs. the US. I wholeheartedly AGREE. That mirrors my surprise and experience exactly, as well as that of some of my ABC colleagues who would stay in Taiwan for business. Basically, girls appreciated us better (or at least were more forgiving and enthusiastic about every little detail about us). Since we hadn't lived in Asia, it was a welcome surprise for us. Pretty girls would, on a regular basis, offer to set me up or give me their phone numbers. This was when I was more dorky-looking and just out of college---very un-suave! Another big shock---there are just so many more young women around in GENERAL. In the office as well as on the street (I worked in the Hsinchu Science Park.) [Almost every day, someone would ask if I were married or had a girlfriend.]

One day, this woman colleague whom I had never met came up to me. "How old are you?" she asked. "Why do you want to know?" I said. "Well I have this 4-year-old daughter. I'm wondering, are you interested in WAITING FOR HER?" I was speechless. "Well, by the time she has grown up, I'll be walking with a cane!"

For Asian Americans who grew up with mostly white folk, like one of my colleagues at the time, this type of royal treatment feels especially sweet. You know what? ABC guys need MORE of this type of attention, especially those who have always felt like a bit of an outsider or who live at the border of two cultures in the U.S.

For me, my Taiwan experience was also the first time and place in my life I could finally use my native tongue (Fujianese/Hokkien, which is like Taiwanese) with the general public. And people--taxi drivers, my friends' parents, and the hotel girls---loved me for it. Here almost no one speaks Taiwanese, and my Mandarin is poor. Thus in my first stay in Taiwan, I felt like I had returned home to a long-lost family.

For ABC women in Taiwan who might feel at a loss in competing with native Taiwanese girls, don't be discouraged! Your advantage is that you have a better understanding of where the ABC men are coming from. You have felt what they felt and have grown up as their classmates, brothers, and coworkers. You do not idealize them like some native Taiwanese, but then you may be able to more deeply appreciate them as whole people. At the end of the day, the ABC men still want someone with whom they can share their deepest thoughts, feelings, values, and humor! This is more important than physical appearance. [And this is where my relationships with women from Asia have faltered. They DON'T appreciate my American side or make enough effort to relate to it.]

Here's my suggestion: capitalize on that, and cater to BOTH the Asian and Western sides of the ABC guys whom you meet. The native Taiwanese girls cannot, no matter how pretty, fully engage our Western sides, understand our Western jokes and values, etc. BUT do learn from the native Taiwanese girls. Too many girls in the West (including some Asian Americans) come across as jaded, bitchy, moody, or perpetually unsatisfied. [Some lack] the art (which must be learned) of making a man feel masculine. The girls who do know how to make a man feel this way are usually taken. I don't mean this in a sexist way. Likewise, no matter how "strong" a woman is, she enjoys being catered to and being made to feel fully feminine. So take a second look at the manners, the sweet talk, the gentleness, and the devotion of some of those native Asian girls. Combine some of their pluses with your home court advantage of common culture---and you become an IRRESISTIBLE package to us!...

I don't mean people should get respect they don't earn. I am talking about the difference between the way the SAME, respectable Asian guys get treated here in the U.S. vs. Taiwan....Culturally, Asians in Asia are more accepting of Asian guys playing the role of leader or lover, regardless of the actual role these guys play and the confidence they have in real life.

Just look at the Jet Li flick, Kiss of the Dragon. My friend and I were both dismayed by how it portrayed Li's relationship with Bridget Fonda. He saves and protects her, she offers him affection, and yet Li acts like a eunuch. No kissing, no touching. Like he's a robot who's only good for kung fu, with no normal male reactions of every other Western action hero. These kinds of impressions of Asians are what we ABCs have to fight. It's better here in the San Francisco area. Yet my home is so UN-representative of most of America. I grew up in New England, in a black and white community with barely any Asians, plus I've travelled to the East and deep South and had to deal with these stereotypes head on.

I was trying to shed light on why those ABC guys in Taiwan may seem to be going more for the native Taiwanese chicks. Sure, some might be more insecure and feel threatened by a "strong" Westernized woman, but then women in Asia have become more assertive and powerful, and there are a lot of "strong" native women in Taipei too. All the women I've met from National Taiwan University have been both "strong" and feminine.

What I mean, and maybe I'll get in more trouble here, is that the native Taiwanese women I've met have tended to be sweeter, more cheerful, more easy to please, and more willing to let the man lead than the Westernized women. And that can be more attractive.

Hold on. Before you hit that REPLY button like a game show contestant, let me clarify "letting the man lead." I don't mean men should always lead over women, that women can't and shouldn't lead, or any other permutation you might dream up. There are certain situations in which men should take the lead and in which women PREFER men do so. It's not that women couldn't do it themselves. It's just part of the male role.

Paying for dinner, for instance. Asking someone out. Carrying the luggage. All preferably men things. And a man feels great doing them because he feels like he is really being a gentleman and scoring points with this woman. (Gosh, I feel like John Gray!)

I do ballroom dance, however, and I repeatedly meet women here who try to lead the dance move. Only inexperienced dancers do this. In dance, the man leads---period. The best women dance partners know how to sense the man's slight nudge and move accordingly. They are great followers and make even a bad partner look good. They are not weak women, but they know when to play the right role at the right time.

After this experience, a man will feel more masculine and may be more attracted to the woman. And a woman will feel feminine and may return the attraction. This is not because he has "dominated" her, but because they have both communicated well and worked well as a team. They have played the roles they needed at that time.

A Westernized woman (again, I just mean sometimes) MAY be confused by these roles. She may have been used to duking it out in the corporate world, where she needs to act more manly to advance. But when she goes home and forgets and treats her boyfriend like an employee she manages, he may balk. It can be a difficult balance.

I have women friends who act more masculine at work but switch when they come home and give their boyfriends backrubs or whatever, and everyone is happy.

'Nuff said.